{"id":4577,"date":"2012-12-02T13:30:42","date_gmt":"2012-12-02T13:30:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.ingeta.com\/?p=4577"},"modified":"2012-12-02T13:30:42","modified_gmt":"2012-12-02T13:30:42","slug":"genocide-in-silence-an-interview-with-kambale-musavuli-on-the-congo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/genocide-in-silence-an-interview-with-kambale-musavuli-on-the-congo\/","title":{"rendered":"Genocide in Silence: An interview with Kambale Musavuli on the Congo"},"content":{"rendered":"

\t\t\t\tBy Daniel Kovalik, Conterpunch<\/a>. <\/em><\/p>\n

The most catastrophic human rights disaster since World War II has been unfolding in the Democratic Republic of The Congo (\u201cDRC\u201d or \u201cCongo\u201d) since the mid-1990\u2019s. While the numbers of the victims are hard to know for certain, there are credible reports of at least 5 million and quite possibly over 6 million civilians killed, half of whom were children under the age of 5 years old. Despite these staggering numbers, the Congo has received little attention in the press, and certainly much less than the human rights situations in countries like The Sudan (Darfur), the former Yugoslavia, Libya and now Syria \u2013 that is, countries in which the U.S. wished to intervene \u2014 though the tragedy in the Congo is much worse than in any of those countries.<\/p>\n

Given the current situation with rebels taking the city of Goma in the eastern Congo, I decided to talk to Kambale Musavuli, one of the most important human rights advocates for the Congo. Mr. Musavuli is from the capital of the Congo, Kinshasa, and is now the spokesperson for the Washington-based Friends of the Congo, and currently resides in D.C. He has written and spoken extensively on the situation facing the people of the Congo, including in the Washington Post, and in the powerful movie, \u201cCrisis in the Congo,\u201d which can be found at friendsofthecongo.org. He kindly spoke to me yesterday by phone, and excerpts of that interview follow:<\/p>\n

DK: Ok, wonderful. \u00a0So, my first question would be just to cut to the chase, well, first of all, what is happening right now in the\u00a0Congo that we should be concerned about?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

KM: A militia group that has taken over cities in the eastern part of Congo. \u00a0And this militia group is calling itself M23 . . . \u00a0The\u00a0Congo\u2019s neighbors, Rwanda and Uganda, are supporting and arming the rebel groups inside of the Congo. \u00a0 . . . \u00a0 And that\u00a0situation that has caused over 650,000 people to be displaced, scores have been killed, there are summary executions,\u00a0women are being raped by the rebel militia groups, and all of this accompanied by a most deafening silence by the world\u00a0governments to bring an end to this crisis.<\/p>\n

DK: What role does the United States have in all of this?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0Well, as I mentioned, there are conflicts and the rebel groups, the militia group actually I would rather call them militia. \u00a0The\u00a0militia group they are supported by Rwanda for the most part, \u00a0and Uganda is also supporting them. \u00a0Rwanda and Uganda\u00a0are United States allies. \u00a0They receive our taxpayers\u2019 money, their leadership is trained by our military and they operate as\u00a0trained police of the world for the United States. \u00a0So you see Ugandan soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia. \u00a0 And you see\u00a0Rwanda soldiers in Sudan, especially Darfur, and in Haiti. \u00a0Doing these peacekeeping operations where the U.S. has\u00a0interests, and because of that, the United States is mighty silent despite the evidence that exists. \u00a0And the evidence that\u00a0even the US government recognizes \u2014 remember the United States has withheld $200,000 to the Rwanda government\u00a0because of the support to rebel groups in Congo, which means they have evidence of what Rwanda is doing in the Congo.\u00a0\u00a0Yet, we are still providing them [Rwanda] with $240 million of our tax monies. \u00a0So the US is playing the very negative role in\u00a0continuing to support nations that are supporting, training, arming, and equipping the rebels in the Congo and at the United\u00a0Nations even playing a bigger role in being an obstacle to peace in the Congo. \u00a0By that I mean Susan Rice, the United\u00a0Nations Ambassador from the US, has blocked the reports according to many. \u00a0Let me go back, so it is clear what I am\u00a0saying. \u00a0Susan Rice, the US Ambassador to the UN, according to many diplomats, has blocked the release of the reports;\u00a0there were two UN reports that were supposed to be published, and the first one was supposed to come out in June.\u00a0\u00a0Diplomats from the Security Council have shared with the media and different contacts in New York that she single-handedly was blocking the report from being published and wanted to give Rwanda an opportunity to respond to the UN\u00a0report documenting involvement in supporting rebel groups in the Congo. \u00a0The second report \u2026<\/p>\n

DK: \u00a0Have you seen those reports?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0Both of them have been released.<\/p>\n

DK: \u00a0OK.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0But they are released because, what actually took place is that the people who were working on the report even under\u00a0pressure from the United States, they leaked the report to the press.<\/p>\n

DK: \u00a0OK.<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0Because the press gets it and the press, specifically Reuters, was publishing excerpts from the report.\u00a0\u00a0[See,http:\/\/www.reuters.com\/article\/2012\/10\/17\/us-congo-democratic-rwanda-uganda-idUSBRE89F1RQ20121017]\u00a0\u00a0The\u00a0columnist even said, \u201chow come this report is not being published?\u201d \u00a0So it was impossible for the Security Council not to\u00a0publish the content of the report because there were already eyes which have seen what was in the report. \u00a0Same thing\u00a0happened to the second one, but the second one was just published about 10 days ago, last week, and before the report\u00a0was published, the UN was to put forward the resolution to condemn Rwanda for supporting rebel groups. We have been\u00a0getting information that Rwanda\u2019s name was taken off the resolution, so the resolution is only saying that any external\u00a0support to rebels, to the M23 militia group, should be stopped, pretty much not naming who is supporting the rebels. \u00a0So\u00a0seeing that, what we are letting Americans know is your government is complicit in the displacement of 650,000 people in\u00a0the Congo. \u00a0Scores of people killed because they [the U.S. officials] choose to . . . cover for these allies in Africa to the\u00a0detriment of human rights of people living in The Congo.<\/p>\n

DK: \u00a0Now, Susan Rice is one of those, how would you say it, she believes in this R2P, this right, or this \u201cresponsibility to\u00a0protect\u201d doctrine.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0Yet in R2P there is no \u201cC\u201d. \u00a0That\u2019s what we\u2019ve been saying. \u00a0We say that in R2P there is no \u201cC\u201d; this means there is no\u00a0\u201cC\u201d for Congo. \u00a0According to US policy, this means that The Congo is not to be protected. \u00a0The evidence is overwhelming.\u00a0\u00a0You don\u2019t even have to read the newspaper to find out what is happening. \u00a0You can actually talk to Congolese, walk on the\u00a0ground in the areas where the militia group is. \u00a0But, and we know that the US government is\u00a0aware\u00a0of how bad it\u2019s\u00a0happening. \u00a0They are denying the report from the United Nations. \u00a0The head of the UN mission to the Congo, Roger Meece,\u00a0is an American. \u00a0He is in contact. \u00a0We have attaches there. \u00a0What is \u00a0happening in the Congo is visible. \u00a0But the\u00a0responsibility to protect has not been activated for the Congo, so why I have to ask. \u00a0Why, what is the right of the United\u00a0States to talk about the issue of Syria, when we know what is happening in the Congo, and we know the perpetrators, and\u00a0the perpetrators are backed by our allies, and that\u2019s the discussion that needs to happen as they push for R2P and we see\u00a0that this does not apply to the Congo.<\/p>\n

They are very aware of the situation \u2014 the UN mission, the US government, all the way up to the White House and the\u00a0National Security Council, they are very aware of the situation. \u00a0And I\u2019m using the evidence that the US government\u00a0withdrew $200,000 to Rwanda for a military academy. \u00a0They did so because they had evidence that Rwanda was\u00a0supporting rebel groups. \u00a0So \u00a0I\u2019m using their own information about their knowledge of what is happening, and yet they\u2019re\u00a0not taking action. \u00a0This is complicity. \u00a0If you are aware, just as we took action to end the Holocaust in Europe, if we know in\u00a0the Congo millions have died from, estimates take the number to over 6 million, and half of them are children under the age\u00a0of 5, and we\u00a0remain\u00a0silent when we know what is happening, we are really complicit. \u00a0And in a very tangible way because\u00a0we are supporting the two oppressive regimes in Rwanda and Uganda, and in turn these nations are using the support that\u00a0we are giving them to create, fabricate militia groups which are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. \u00a0And\u00a0when one has the proper evidence, there should be outrage. \u00a0I am not appealing to the government. \u00a0The appeal is to the\u00a0American people, the people that I meet every day in the streets, with whom I share what is happening in the Congo. \u00a0They\u00a0ask me, \u201cWhat can I do to help?\u201d \u00a0. . . \u00a0So I\u2019m appealing to them, I\u2019m letting them know your government is complicit in the\u00a0killing of the people in the Congo through its support of Rwanda and Uganda who have been implicated in the massacre in\u00a0the Congo by numerous respectable organizations such as Human Rights Watch, a United Nations group of experts. \u00a0If\u00a0you want to help me, hold your government accountable for supporting oppressive regimes in Africa. \u00a0That would mean in\u00a0this case stop supporting Rwanda and Uganda militarily. \u00a0Stop supporting oppressive regimes in Rwanda and Uganda.\u00a0\u00a0That will go a long way for peace in the Congo.<\/p>\n

DK: And Kambale, why do you think the US is continuing to support Rwanda and Uganda even knowing that these atrocities\u00a0are being committed? \u00a0What interests are they protecting?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

<\/em>KM: Economic interests and military interests. \u00a0Economic interests in Congo are that which we need in our daily life. \u00a0The\u00a0coltan which comes out the Congo can be found in your cell phone, the cobalt of the Congo can be found in the battery of\u00a0your phone and all the different resources the Congo has. \u00a0Rwanda and Uganda have become the broker of Congo\u2019s\u00a0minerals, and they loot Congo\u2019s mineral resources while they commit atrocities. \u00a0. . . \u00a0Chaos allows resources to leave from\u00a0the Congo at a cheap price, and of course it\u2019s not actually just leaving it\u2019s actually being stolen from the Congolese people.\u00a0\u00a0The second one is military interest. \u00a0Rwanda and Uganda their militaries have been trained by the United States. \u00a0Since the\u00a0era when the American soldier was killed in Somalia in Mogadishu, the US did not want to have any of the troops in Africa\u00a0anymore. \u00a0So the U.S. created a system in which they would train all the foreign military missions. \u00a0I mean, can you imagine\u00a0that in Afghanistan today, we have Ugandan soldiers in Afghanistan fighting the war on terror. \u00a0How many Americans know\u00a0that? \u00a0We have Rwandan soldiers in Haiti and in Sudan. \u00a0These missions can be deployed across the world to protect US\u00a0interests around the world. \u00a0. . . \u00a0 So, the US government is valuing profits before people, and ignoring the fact that people\u00a0have the right to life, to human rights. \u00a0. . .<\/p>\n

DK: Kambale, did you have some hope that Barrack Obama, who is a child of Africa himself, being part Kenyan, did you have\u00a0hopes that he would help the Congo?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0I will be very honest with you. \u00a0I had hope for Obama before November 4, 2008. \u00a0And I had hope for him to do something\u00a0about the Congo because as a senator he wrote 156 bills, only 2 of them passed. \u00a0One of them was on mercury export and\u00a0the second one was called \u201cThe Democratic Republic of Congo Relief Security Democracy Promotion Act.\u201d \u00a0So, President\u00a0Obama today, as a senator wrote a bill about the Congo which was signed into law in December of 2006 by George Bush,\u00a0and is really comprehensive in holding the responsible parties accountable in Africa. \u00a0 However, these bills are completely\u00a0ignored. \u00a0So I have been a human rights advocate, I have mobilized people in this country to let them know that the\u00a0President that we have is not addressing the situation in the Congo while I know he was really knowledgeable of the\u00a0situation even when he was on the Foreign Affairs Committee as a senator. \u00a0And I have tried to share this knowledge with\u00a0the left in America who had faith in the Democratic Party and that Obama would do something positive after being re-elected. \u00a0 I said this is not how Washington works. \u00a0You hold your president accountable. \u00a0And even now we have proof\u00a0that the situation in the Congo has worsened. \u00a0. . . We cannot depend on the politicians to do anything. \u00a0Anything in\u00a0American gets done because the folks stand up. \u00a0Even during the Civil Rights, Americans knew about holding the\u00a0government accountable. \u00a0. . .<\/p>\n

DK: \u00a0 Well, this is very helpful. \u00a0I, you know, I mean, it\u2019s hard to comprehend what\u2019s happening there, when you give figures of 6\u00a0million dead, you know that\u2019s the figure of the Holocaust. \u00a0I mean, you\u2019re talking about a holocaust in the Congo. \u00a0After\u00a0World War II people said we\u2019ll never let this happen again, and here it\u2019s happening.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

KM: \u00a0Yes, yes, yes. \u00a0It\u2019s happening in total silence. \u00a0You know, I\u2019m thinking that for one person dead, people would ask for a\u00a0minute of silence. \u00a0 But to do this for the Congo would shut them up forever. \u00a0Because if for one person you ask for a minute\u00a0of silence, with so many deaths in the Congo you would not be able to speak ever again. \u00a0. . . But then it puts the question\u00a0of do we think the African people are human beings? \u00a0. . . \u00a0I don\u2019t know if you are interviewing me from the context of what\u2019s\u00a0going to happen a hundred years from now. \u00a0Can you imagine a hundred years from now as children of the time are reading\u00a0the history of this era, they will ask themselves, why did you take so long to stop this? \u00a0Why did it have to take 16 years to\u00a0stop the killing of 6 million? \u00a0And history will judge us for our actions. \u00a0But can when we among the people say that when we\u00a0heard that 6 million people are dead, we did everything in our power to use our talent and our net worth . . . to stop it? \u00a0And\u00a0that\u2019s the call that we put out to people \u2014 \u00a0that we have to stop it. \u00a0Anywhere around the world where\u2019s its happening, we\u00a0have to speak up because if we don\u2019t, it only comes back full circle. \u00a0You know?<\/p>\n

And I had a discussion with a German woman a month ago. \u00a0And, I explained that under King Leopold of Belgium, 10 million\u00a0Congolese people die. \u00a0This was\u00a0before\u00a0the Holocaust! \u00a0Then after the Holocaust, we are at 6 million again, and I\u00a0challenged her, I hope you will help us stop the conflict. \u00a0And her remark was that, \u201cI have a lot of problems of my own to\u00a0deal with.\u201d \u00a0And I just replied to her these were the same statements that took place when they were killing the Jewish\u00a0people. \u00a0And if there were those people when it first started who decided to stop it, we wouldn\u2019t have 6 million Jews killed.\u00a0\u00a0And it\u2019s the same thing with the Congo today . . .<\/p>\n

Daniel Kovalik<\/strong>\u00a0is a labor and human rights lawyer living in Pittsburgh.\u00a0 He currently teaches International Human Rights at the University of Pittsburgh School of Law.<\/em>\t\t<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

By Daniel Kovalik, Conterpunch. The most catastrophic human rights disaster since World War II has been unfolding in the Democratic Republic of The Congo (\u201cDRC\u201d or \u201cCongo\u201d) since the mid-1990\u2019s. While the numbers of the victims are hard to know for certain, there are credible reports of at least 5 million and quite possibly over […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4578,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[158,122,124],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4577","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","category-news-alertes","category-politique-societe"],"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4577","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4577"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4577\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4577"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4577"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/congolobilelo.com\/IN\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4577"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}